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Guest Message by DevFuse

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The new competion, Dodge Dart

Dodge Dart

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14 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   DaddyO

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:35 AM

Just out of curriosity I went to a local Dealership to take a look at the new 2013 Dodge Dart. Over a year ago when I was shopping the market and done all the research at the time the Cruze won out the competion which was both Hyndia's Elantra and Veloster, Honda CRZ and the Ford Fiesta. Despite a minor recent repair incident detailed on this blog in another catagory I am still behind my decsion.

As a side note the Dart is made in Belvidere Il of which I used to live and go by that plant every day I go to work. Before the Jeep line up they used to produce the Neon! Until now the Dodge line up has not had a high mileage car. This Dart being produced at the plant for about a month now was just made public on the 28th of June. There was only one at the dealership and it had a SOLD sign on it. Despite that I figured it was still fair game to inspect and check out. According to a info package I received in the mail after going to their web site to me this looks like a copy of the Cruze with some more options!

Two things stuck me funny though. 1. At the time I went they appared to be busy. NOBODY ever came up and even said they were busy but would be with me shortly.
2. About a half and hour away at the plant there was be at least 300 of them sitting at the plant waiting to be shipped. What is the logic of only having one in stock then???

I would think Chrysler/Fiat would done this rollout better.







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#2 OFFLINE   diesel

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:24 PM

Probably awaiting to be shipped to 300 dealers :yup:

#3 OFFLINE   DaddyO

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:43 PM

Well that could be true but if the response I got was any indication of how they are promoting this
new model I see some price slashing and layed off auto workers.

Funny I forgot to mention that plant has rail shipping avaible but I've never seen a Dart lined
up to ship out other than truck transport.

#4 OFFLINE   ChevyCruzeBE

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:44 AM

Its a FIAT......
Let's Cruze !!!!

#5 OFFLINE   ProDigit

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

I drove the dart, and although it's a nice looking car, it's driving like crap!

The transmission is even worse than the cruze; much worse, and the acceleration big time suxx!
It does have that auto brake thing when standing still uphill, but the dart does not have power whatsoever until the tach reaches 1300rpm!
From 1300 to 2000 it has regular power, and from 2k and up, the power shoots through the roof, making this car hard to manouver, hard to accelerate fast from a stand still, hard to shift gears, and hard to maintain speed (due to the lag of the turbo).

Chevrolet manual is awesome, their auto is worse. I haven't tried the Dodge AT though...

Edited by ProDigit, 19 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

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#6 OFFLINE   Lagaffe

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:53 PM

Let me see if I understood something correctly, Prodigit:

In your own Cruze, you have to wait for the engine to warm up, so the revs drop down a little, otherwise, when you shift it to D, it will go too fast for you to be able to get out of your parking space.

With the Dogde Dart it is "hard to maintain speed (due to the lag of the turbo)." ... and "from 2k and up, the power shoots through the roof, making this car hard to manouver" ... do you need more than 2k revs to manoeuvre the car?

... what am I missing?

#7 OFFLINE   diesel

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Isn't that al about the differences in cars, once you get used to it it will be fine. I don't understand what "lag of te turbo" has to do with maintaining constant speed...Why is the turbo blaimed for all response problems in a car? the turbo lag becomes relevant when you drive at 3000 rmps and suddenly floor the pedal, it takes a few short moments for the turbo to spool up the pressure and give full power. Other than revs above 3000rpms, the turbo boost is very low. Does the Dart have a torbo boost gauge to be able to identify the lag?
If you drive at 1200 rpms and floor the pedal you get little power, that is not turbo lag, the turbo generates very little boost at that rev.

These revs i have indicated depend on a car and engine, don't stare too much at the figures, it is the principle that counts. I have a Opel Astra, 2 Litre turbo and the turbo boost comes fully on after 4500rpms.

#8 OFFLINE   Lagaffe

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Well pointed out, diesel ! As you know, this 1.4L engine installed in the new Dodge Dart, was originated from the FIAT group. And it is well know in models like Alfa Romeo Mito, A.R. Giulietta 1.4L Multiair (170hp) Abarth Punto Evo ... and some others. This motor won the 2010 International Engine of the Year (http://www.ukipme.co...10/bestnew.html)

The turbo installed on this engine (Dart 1.4L multiair) makes a 22psi peek @ 4K rpm (http://www.dart-mouth.com/engines.html) ... the turbo is computer controlled, so the boost is predicable to appear slow and smooth. I don't really know what turbo it is, but, most likely it is a Garrett (FIAT is found of Garrett turbos). My point is, most likely the turbo lag is neglectable.

Here's a review from top gear http://www.topgear.c...t/1.4-tb-170-hp
Where its said:

Objectively, grown-uppedly, the top-spec petrol is excellent. It'll do 0-62mph in under eight seconds, which is frankly quicker than a good-sized hatch with a 1.4-litre engine has any right to be. Equipped with stop-start, it'll manage 49mpg and just 134g/km of CO2: impressive figures. Yes, things are a bit dead below 2,000rpm, but it hardly feels like a tiny petrol engine with a fat turbo attached: power delivery is smooth and progressive, the boost barely noticeable.



#9 OFFLINE   ProDigit

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:58 AM

@Lagraffe: I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say there.
Please formulate your questions clearly if you need to ask something, because I don't even know why you posted that post.

I don't understand what "lag of te turbo" has to do with maintaining constant speed...Why is the turbo blaimed for all response problems in a car? the turbo lag becomes relevant when you drive at 3000 rmps and suddenly floor the pedal, it takes a few short moments for the turbo to spool up the pressure and give full power. Other than revs above 3000rpms, the turbo boost is very low. Does the Dart have a torbo boost gauge to be able to identify the lag?
If you drive at 1200 rpms and floor the pedal you get little power, that is not turbo lag, the turbo generates very little boost at that rev.

These revs i have indicated depend on a car and engine, don't stare too much at the figures, it is the principle that counts. I have a Opel Astra, 2 Litre turbo and the turbo boost comes fully on after 4500rpms.


1- There are several ways to look at the turbo lag. First, the Dart has 2 turbo's; that's why at low RPM's, where the tiny 1,4 liter engine has barely enough power to accelerate the car, also needs to spool up the turbo's. So you'll end up having an enormous slow acceleration.
2- The turbo, like any other turbo, causes the speed to be less stable. Let's say, you're driving a regular non turbo car, and accelerate to a certain speed, once you reach the speed, keep the pedal steady, most likely 2 minutes from there, you'll still be riding roundabout that same speed limit.
With a turbo, the turbo is still spooling up while you already have reached top speed, and holding the throttle steady. Only 2 minutes later you notice your speed is much higher than what would be with a regular car.
Likewise in reverse, you hold down the throttle and keep a steady 50MPH. When crossing a bridge, without a turbo, your speed may drop to 45MPH on the uphill. With the turbo, it may be 40MPH (just like on the eco). With the Dart, you'll probably be going 38MPH at the top of the bridge.
So in essence, you constantly have to readjust the throttle (gas pedal) in order to maintain the same speed, especially when driving on a highway with a lot of bridges; causing you more to look at the speed dial, than at the road (especially with the Dart, that's just like a regular cruze, very quiet, and hard to estimate speed from road noise.

Edited by ProDigit, 08 December 2012 - 02:14 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   Lagaffe

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

@Lagraffe: I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say there.
Please formulate your questions clearly if you need to ask something, because I don't even know why you posted that post.


Maybe my English is not the best, and I know it. It is not my 1st language, and not even my 2nd ... so, if you didn't understood something I said, just let me know, and I'll try to explain my self better.

Why I said all of that? for one very simple reason. That same simple reason that even diesel mentioned on his first sentence: "what turbo lag as to do with maintaining constant speed" ? ... short answer is "nothing" ! For the past 12 years that I'm driving forced induction engines as a daily basis, before that and for about 8 years I was driving natural aspirated engines, and you want to know how many times I've experience that "phenomenon" ? ZERO !! ... it has nothing to do with the car you're driving, it is all a drivers issue.

All the rest I've mentioned in my post, about different cars reviews with that same engine, it was just to prove my point. None of them, in any situation was refereed to have "lag problems". More to that, if that same engine, had all those lag issues that you're referring to, do you think it would be considered the best on its class in 2010?

Your 2 points, make no sense whatsoever ... 2 turbos ? are we talking about the 1.4 multiair engine?. It is "multiair" not "multiturbo". Here's a video explaining in detail how that same engine works:



Maintaining a steady speed (on any car) is depending on so many things, to start the engine power and torque, second the road ... is it uphill, downhill, bumps ? ... is there any wind? and even the kind of rocks below the road influence (soils with ferrite influence much the way the car accelerates).

I don't know what kind of cars you were used to drive, but, if you were used to drive cars with a "big" displacement and a much better torque than the Cruze or the Dart, then yes, in such cases it is easy to maintain a steady speed because there is so much torque that the engine is barely making any effort to move the car, and you can keep the accelerator at almost the same position to drive at the same speed.

Again, and bottom line. Turbo lag has nothing to do with maintain a steady speed.

#11 OFFLINE   DaddyO

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

I see this topic has generated the old potato/pototo situation. Just an update on what I have seen while passing by the Belividere
Plant where the Darts are made. They have a north lot that used to be filled with Darts only. Now unless they cut production on the\Jeeps
that where stored on a south lot. I see less Darts in that lot every day I pass it. Maybe the Dart has some worthy attributes but perhaps
came onto the playing field too late to grab sales???

#12 OFFLINE   ProDigit

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

Turbo lag has EVERYTHING to do with maintaining speed!
It kicks in late, meaning when your speed reduces, it only starts pushing back a bit later. By the time it starts pushing back, the small displacement motor and turbo adjusting for the different driving condition (going from level ground, to driving uphill), has already had your car slow down another 10MPH...
I mean, probably the same thing on a car with a NA, and small displacement engine, but a Turbo makes this even worse.
On the dart, the engine depends even more on the turbo to generate it's torque, the problem is even more evident.

On the 1.4 liter Turbo Cruze, with it's large body, it feels almost as if you're driving an old fashioned 1000-1200cc volkswagen Beetle uphill. Unless you're almost flooring the pedal in final gear, the car will slow down drastically uphill.

Edited by ProDigit, 10 December 2012 - 09:43 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   Lagaffe

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:08 AM

Even tough I wasn't the only one pointing you on the right direction, and I even presented evidences of what I was saying (you showed nothing, apart from your own opinion). It seams you know it all ... so, ok, good luck with that.

#14 OFFLINE   Galtha58

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:10 PM

Turbo lag has EVERYTHING to do with maintaining speed!
It kicks in late, meaning when your speed reduces, it only starts pushing back a bit later. By the time it starts pushing back, the small displacement motor and turbo adjusting for the different driving condition (going from level ground, to driving uphill), has already had your car slow down another 10MPH...
I mean, probably the same thing on a car with a NA, and small displacement engine, but a Turbo makes this even worse.
On the dart, the engine depends even more on the turbo to generate it's torque, the problem is even more evident.

On the 1.4 liter Turbo Cruze, with it's large body, it feels almost as if you're driving an old fashioned 1000-1200cc volkswagen Beetle uphill. Unless you're almost flooring the pedal in final gear, the car will slow down drastically uphill.

I recently purchased a used 2016 Cruze LT with auto trans and the 1.4L eco turbo and I have not noticed any of the issues you are talking about. I have NO problem maintaining a steady speed, going up hills or accelerating. So far I am very pleased with the acceleration and performance of my Cruze. In fact I have been very impressed by the power from such a small engine. No matter how many theories everyone throws out the real test is how the vehicle performs. I was an auto mechanic and shop owner for over 20 years so I have driven many cars. From a Yugo all the way up to muscle cars. I have a lot of experience driving different makes and models of cars over the years and this one has impressed me so far.  In the past most turbo assisted engines tended to have a bit of lag as the turbo boost kicks in. I have not noticed that at all on my 2016 Cruze LT. The other symptoms you are talking about don't make sense to me. Have you talked to your local dealer about the issues you are experiencing?  Sounds to me like there may be something else wrong with your vehicle. How does your Cruze perform when you use the cruise control? From what you are saying you should be getting very poor performance from your cruise control if you are experiencing all theses issues. And if you have to push that far down on the accelerator pedal to go up a hill you definitely have a power problem. Though the transmission should have shifted out of lockup and overdrive and maybe even down a gear or two beyond that if the hill is that steep and you are pushing down on the pedal that much. If the transmission is not shifting to a lower gear in that situation you need to have someone look at the transmission performance to find out what is going on there. With a small engine like this the transmission has to be working correctly as well as the turbo to get the best performance. That little engine needs all the help it can get.  


Edited by Galtha58, 26 October 2017 - 09:31 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   Galtha58

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

I see this topic has generated the old potato/pototo situation. Just an update on what I have seen while passing by the Belividere
Plant where the Darts are made. They have a north lot that used to be filled with Darts only. Now unless they cut production on the\Jeeps
that where stored on a south lot. I see less Darts in that lot every day I pass it. Maybe the Dart has some worthy attributes but perhaps
came onto the playing field too late to grab sales???

I rented and drove a Dodge Dart for a week while on a trip to the Las Vegas area about a year ago. I liked the car. It performed well for me. Though I don't know that I would ever buy another car that is affiliated with Fiat. Had a Fiat Spyder when I was lot younger and that was the worst car I ever owned. Almost everything broke on the car in the few years that I owned it. Good thing I was running an auto repair shop at the time. I have never seen a car that was that problematic before or since. I could name all the repairs that I had to make on that car while I owned it but it would take up too much space. It was a cute car and fun to drive but it was certainly not built to last. Hopefully Fiat products are better now.  


Edited by Galtha58, 26 October 2017 - 09:38 PM.









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